Comments on: The Cover for Heroes for Hire #13. DO NOT WANT. [Bonus, open challenge to the defenders of this cover art] http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/ One of many voices that speak out against problems of the portrayal of gender, sexuality and race in comics. I just happen to be a male, white middle class member of the primary comic book target demographic. Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:34:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Bunny http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-13091 Bunny Sun, 03 Jun 2007 15:13:26 +0000 http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-13091 Actually, as a girl with outsized boobs, I'm afraid to say that sideways nipple isn't all THAT odd... Maybe it isn't common for all women, but my nipples poke out like I've got the opposite of a squint on my chest. Maybe it's just that I've been wearing larger-size bras since I was 13 (D cup at 13, latest count at 23 as still growing- FF) I've always had to sort of fold my boobs into bras... But yeah, odd nipples aside, that is definitely hentai porn- there's whole pornsites dedicated to images like that... Actually, as a girl with outsized boobs, I’m afraid to say that sideways nipple isn’t all THAT odd…

Maybe it isn’t common for all women, but my nipples poke out like I’ve got the opposite of a squint on my chest. Maybe it’s just that I’ve been wearing larger-size bras since I was 13 (D cup at 13, latest count at 23 as still growing- FF) I’ve always had to sort of fold my boobs into bras…

But yeah, odd nipples aside, that is definitely hentai porn- there’s whole pornsites dedicated to images like that…

]]> By: Michelle http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11342 Michelle Tue, 29 May 2007 00:44:45 +0000 http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11342 Good grief. That's <em>hentai</em>. You wouldn't get something that bad in Japanese shounen manga, which is the equivalent to this book's age rating. Forget trying to find reverse-gender equivalents - it doesn't exist. That's pure misogynistic porn. Good grief. That’s hentai. You wouldn’t get something that bad in Japanese shounen manga, which is the equivalent to this book’s age rating. Forget trying to find reverse-gender equivalents - it doesn’t exist. That’s pure misogynistic porn.

]]> By: I Read the Internets, too: 25/05/07 http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11286 I Read the Internets, too: 25/05/07 Sat, 26 May 2007 17:00:41 +0000 http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11286 [...] …and Designated Sidekick, after stating clearly for the sake of the comics industry that this cover fails to be arousing, adds a challenge to those who think men are portrayed just as poorly: If you want to persuade me that this cover isn’t sexist, because men are drawn in similar poses, then I’m up for the challenge. If you can find me a cover with up to three men, all drawn in passive poses, with demonstrable hardness of the nipples or penis, sad faces, and the female hero (for what little of her is seen) being active, you can tell me that this cover isn’t sexist because stuff happens to guys as well. Especially on the cover of T+ rate comics. [...] [...] …and Designated Sidekick, after stating clearly for the sake of the comics industry that this cover fails to be arousing, adds a challenge to those who think men are portrayed just as poorly: If you want to persuade me that this cover isn’t sexist, because men are drawn in similar poses, then I’m up for the challenge. If you can find me a cover with up to three men, all drawn in passive poses, with demonstrable hardness of the nipples or penis, sad faces, and the female hero (for what little of her is seen) being active, you can tell me that this cover isn’t sexist because stuff happens to guys as well. Especially on the cover of T+ rate comics. [...]

]]> By: Maggie http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11276 Maggie Sat, 26 May 2007 10:39:31 +0000 http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11276 It's definitely not a porn tracing. Porn tracings would be a little more realistic. First thing that jumped out at me, before I even noticed the chains, was those goddamn huge breasts on the middle girl. Being one myself, I'm pretty sure girls tend to have nipples around... say... the approximate MIDDLE of their breasts? The way her costume is squeezing them together and the placement of the nipples that far to the side is pretty incongruous. I think it might be just, just physically possible WITH severe discomfort IF you have big enough breasts, but you ain't getting that on a naked chick, that's for sure. Also I think she's dislocated a shoulder there. It’s definitely not a porn tracing. Porn tracings would be a little more realistic. First thing that jumped out at me, before I even noticed the chains, was those goddamn huge breasts on the middle girl. Being one myself, I’m pretty sure girls tend to have nipples around… say… the approximate MIDDLE of their breasts? The way her costume is squeezing them together and the placement of the nipples that far to the side is pretty incongruous. I think it might be just, just physically possible WITH severe discomfort IF you have big enough breasts, but you ain’t getting that on a naked chick, that’s for sure.

Also I think she’s dislocated a shoulder there.

]]> By: Doomkopf.com: The Legion of Doom » I swear this isn’t just to get more Women In Comics hits http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11255 Doomkopf.com: The Legion of Doom » I swear this isn’t just to get more Women In Comics hits Fri, 25 May 2007 21:46:04 +0000 http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11255 [...] Designated Sidekick has a breakdown of the sexism in the recently released Heroes for Hire #13 cover, while Lea Hernandez addresses the tentacle rape and pearl necklace in her Open Letter to Joe Quesada. Roar of Comics addresses it all in “Why the Cover for Heroes for Hire #13 is Wrong.” [...] [...] Designated Sidekick has a breakdown of the sexism in the recently released Heroes for Hire #13 cover, while Lea Hernandez addresses the tentacle rape and pearl necklace in her Open Letter to Joe Quesada. Roar of Comics addresses it all in “Why the Cover for Heroes for Hire #13 is Wrong.” [...]

]]> By: Stephen Dann http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11247 Stephen Dann Fri, 25 May 2007 14:30:28 +0000 http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11247 @arielladrake True. But as the only contestant thus far... sure, not a well constructed entry, but still the first entry in the challenge. (You can beat up any clueless non entrants. I'll even offer a bounty) @arielladrake

True. But as the only contestant thus far… sure, not a well constructed entry, but still the first entry in the challenge. (You can beat up any clueless non entrants. I’ll even offer a bounty)

]]> By: arielladrake http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11246 arielladrake Fri, 25 May 2007 13:51:21 +0000 http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11246 Well yes, but the key point is 'defend the cover with evidence' as part of the invitation. If someone's just playing and comes back with 'well, I'm not defending the cover but', I'm going to be skeptical. Of their reading comprehension, if nothing else. Well yes, but the key point is ‘defend the cover with evidence’ as part of the invitation. If someone’s just playing and comes back with ‘well, I’m not defending the cover but’, I’m going to be skeptical. Of their reading comprehension, if nothing else.

]]> By: Stephen Dann http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11240 Stephen Dann Fri, 25 May 2007 07:02:14 +0000 http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11240 @betty I'm open to alternate opinions on that - the main thing I noticed was the bondage style art, with the character on the side view, just looked so much like she was naked, and just had the costume coloured onto her. Which triggered the thought process of "Where would you get reference art for this? Oh wait...". I'm being harsh on calling porn trace, but I do feel that part of this cover looks like it came out of an issue of Bondage Weekly or equivalent. I'm happy to be wrong. I want to be wrong here. I just can't shift the reference art thought. @john - you missed the bit where I point to the faces as defeated and in submission. it's a contrast between the only part of the male we see is a flexed arm, and the whole female faces are defeated, unconscious or sad. @jen - nipples are set to random. I just find that in the context of the situation, the entire squad having erect nipples under their costumes, the costumes peeled down to the navel, and the whole set up just strikes me that the artist wasn't attempting to portray a cold place with random nipple hardening. @arielladrake - hey, I did invite people over to DS to defend the cover with evidence. Good or bad aside, there is an open challenge going here, and anyone fronting to the match is welcome to deliver the evidence unscathed. [Messenger killing is only permitted in the PvP threads] DS @betty
I’m open to alternate opinions on that - the main thing I noticed was the bondage style art, with the character on the side view, just looked so much like she was naked, and just had the costume coloured onto her. Which triggered the thought process of “Where would you get reference art for this? Oh wait…”. I’m being harsh on calling porn trace, but I do feel that part of this cover looks like it came out of an issue of Bondage Weekly or equivalent.

I’m happy to be wrong. I want to be wrong here. I just can’t shift the reference art thought.

@john - you missed the bit where I point to the faces as defeated and in submission. it’s a contrast between the only part of the male we see is a flexed arm, and the whole female faces are defeated, unconscious or sad.

@jen - nipples are set to random. I just find that in the context of the situation, the entire squad having erect nipples under their costumes, the costumes peeled down to the navel, and the whole set up just strikes me that the artist wasn’t attempting to portray a cold place with random nipple hardening.

@arielladrake - hey, I did invite people over to DS to defend the cover with evidence. Good or bad aside, there is an open challenge going here, and anyone fronting to the match is welcome to deliver the evidence unscathed. [Messenger killing is only permitted in the PvP threads]

DS

]]> By: Stephen Dann http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11239 Stephen Dann Fri, 25 May 2007 06:40:10 +0000 http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11239 @John Cover #1 (vol1_cover_054.jpg) - Fully clothed. Cover is eliminated. Cover #2 (vol1_cover_119.jpg) - Full costumes. Cover is eliminated. Cover #3 (vol1_cover_187.JPG) - Full costumes. Cover is eliminated. Thanks for trying, but the stated condition "Some costume change/ removal of costume" was not met by these covers. If anything, these covers are wonderful cases of WHY the H4H#13 is a problematic cover. Previous captured and in peril covers demonstrate clothed heroes. I do appreciate the effort, but, you can't win the prize on effort alone. You need to meet the criteria set out in the challenge. @John

Cover #1 (vol1_cover_054.jpg) - Fully clothed. Cover is eliminated.
Cover #2 (vol1_cover_119.jpg) - Full costumes. Cover is eliminated.
Cover #3 (vol1_cover_187.JPG) - Full costumes. Cover is eliminated.

Thanks for trying, but the stated condition “Some costume change/ removal of costume” was not met by these covers. If anything, these covers are wonderful cases of WHY the H4H#13 is a problematic cover. Previous captured and in peril covers demonstrate clothed heroes.

I do appreciate the effort, but, you can’t win the prize on effort alone. You need to meet the criteria set out in the challenge.

]]> By: arielladrake http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11236 arielladrake Fri, 25 May 2007 04:14:23 +0000 http://www.girl-wonder.org/designatedsidekick/2007/05/24/the-cover-for-heroes-for-hire-13-do-not-want-bonus-open-challenge-to-the-defenders-of-this-cover-art/#comment-11236 john, It says something that you have to go back to late-60s to early 70s comics to find something vaguely comparable. Of course, it still doesn't actually fit. The first cover you linked still has the chained male heroes looking like they're actively pulling on their bonds. On the nipple thing, whilst yes, hard nipples also relate to cold, to pretend that cold climate (despite the lack of indicators that it's actually cold where they are), and the tendency of nipples to randomly harden in real life (yeah, I know that too) counters the notion that, in comics-like art, hardened nipples are coded as arousal is rather absurd. Plus, y'know. I'm glad it's a game to you. But seriously, if you're going to play the game, don't fool yourself that it doesn't make you look like you're defending the cover. john,

It says something that you have to go back to late-60s to early 70s comics to find something vaguely comparable. Of course, it still doesn’t actually fit. The first cover you linked still has the chained male heroes looking like they’re actively pulling on their bonds.

On the nipple thing, whilst yes, hard nipples also relate to cold, to pretend that cold climate (despite the lack of indicators that it’s actually cold where they are), and the tendency of nipples to randomly harden in real life (yeah, I know that too) counters the notion that, in comics-like art, hardened nipples are coded as arousal is rather absurd.

Plus, y’know. I’m glad it’s a game to you. But seriously, if you’re going to play the game, don’t fool yourself that it doesn’t make you look like you’re defending the cover.

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